Just listened to Roger's DNA podcast, very interesting listen. Seems a sensible thinking angler who gets on with his own fishing and catches a lot of fish.
He goes into an extended D rig that I think I understand from the description, but he said they would put a photo up on DNA social media to clarify.
If they did do this, could a bright spark with social media post it up on here for us to take a look?
Cheers
He goes into an extended D rig that I think I understand from the description, but he said they would put a photo up on DNA social media to clarify.
If they did do this, could a bright spark with social media post it up on here for us to take a look?
Cheers
In reply to Post #1
If anyone has a copy of Albert Romps book, you'll see something identical but used about 20 years+ ago.
In reply to Post #3
Yep, it's nothing new
Yep, it's nothing new
In reply to Post #3
There is some serious thinking and understanding behind that
There is some serious thinking and understanding behind that
In reply to Post #2
Nice one a Chuffy, thanks.
Nice one a Chuffy, thanks.
In reply to Post #3
Dave Mallin wrote about using this or very similar 10/15 years ago I'm pretty sure
Dave Mallin wrote about using this or very similar 10/15 years ago I'm pretty sure
In reply to Post #1
I remember him talking on one the carp cast episodes a couple of years ago about this rig, worth a listen
I remember him talking on one the carp cast episodes a couple of years ago about this rig, worth a listen
Would be paranoid a fish picks it up, gets away with it and leaves the bait near the bottom of the D...... 
In reply to Post #9
That's the whole point of the rig Wayne, think about it, if it picks that up and try's to blows it out what happens
That's the whole point of the rig Wayne, think about it, if it picks that up and try's to blows it out what happens
In reply to Post #10
Suck,blow, suck,blow
Suck,blow, suck,blow
He use it for bottom baits aswell? Or just pop ups
In reply to Post #10
The trouble is no rig is 100% anti eject. It can be very effective on some waters, but not others. Depends on carp size and their feeding habits. I like the D rig mechanics but IMHO has some negatives to consider.
1, nuisance fish picking it up and messing it up.
2, if it does get picked up by a carp or large tench and the hook point grabs hold, and a few ejects later that mini ring the bait is mounted on can become stuck/wedged in the v of the join of the D rig and hook link. That Fish could bolt off making you a happy angler, or spit it out and leave it uneffective for the next pick up.
3, I Prefer very buoyant pop ups that are overshotted, for the reset properties.
4. Can you keep it tangle free ?
The trouble is no rig is 100% anti eject. It can be very effective on some waters, but not others. Depends on carp size and their feeding habits. I like the D rig mechanics but IMHO has some negatives to consider.
1, nuisance fish picking it up and messing it up.
2, if it does get picked up by a carp or large tench and the hook point grabs hold, and a few ejects later that mini ring the bait is mounted on can become stuck/wedged in the v of the join of the D rig and hook link. That Fish could bolt off making you a happy angler, or spit it out and leave it uneffective for the next pick up.
3, I Prefer very buoyant pop ups that are overshotted, for the reset properties.
4. Can you keep it tangle free ?
In reply to Post #13
I have spent probably hundreds of hours like most playing around with rigs and there's is a problem with nearly all the rigs I've tried and tied. When the bait is blown out and the hair folds back, instead of pulling the hook point inwards, into the lip, it tends to pull it outwards and prevents penetration, the fish can easily blow the hook out with the weight of the bait
If you tie one of your rigs up, put a bait on and pull it over you thumb until the hook point just sticks in. Now hold the bait, the bit that the carp will blow outwards. Pull on the bait as if you are simulating the “blow” and you will see that you can pull very hard and the point will not penetrate, it will not pull down in alignment with the point if that makes sense. The longer you whip up the hook shank the more it exaggerates this. This gives a fish the opportunity to shed the hook, quite easily in some cases
Now do the same and pull on the hook length section, the point pulls straight in and downwards, every time!!!!
So when I say it was a bit of smart thinking it is, because here you are using the bait to hook the fish and not relying on the fish pulling against the lead
All rigs have flaws. I have tried variants of this myself and and there are obvious flaws like already mentioned but it's a trade off. I don't use this type of rig but the ones I use now work on the same principe, just not as good as the ones below
I have spent probably hundreds of hours like most playing around with rigs and there's is a problem with nearly all the rigs I've tried and tied. When the bait is blown out and the hair folds back, instead of pulling the hook point inwards, into the lip, it tends to pull it outwards and prevents penetration, the fish can easily blow the hook out with the weight of the bait
If you tie one of your rigs up, put a bait on and pull it over you thumb until the hook point just sticks in. Now hold the bait, the bit that the carp will blow outwards. Pull on the bait as if you are simulating the “blow” and you will see that you can pull very hard and the point will not penetrate, it will not pull down in alignment with the point if that makes sense. The longer you whip up the hook shank the more it exaggerates this. This gives a fish the opportunity to shed the hook, quite easily in some cases
Now do the same and pull on the hook length section, the point pulls straight in and downwards, every time!!!!
So when I say it was a bit of smart thinking it is, because here you are using the bait to hook the fish and not relying on the fish pulling against the lead
All rigs have flaws. I have tried variants of this myself and and there are obvious flaws like already mentioned but it's a trade off. I don't use this type of rig but the ones I use now work on the same principe, just not as good as the ones below
In reply to Post #11
Suck,blow, suck,blow
That was the Nashy anaolgy yes? Basically after a fish has initially been nailed by the hook they will then blow AND suck to try and get rid of it, it's what happens on the suck that's just as important and most people don't consider, I know I didn't
Suck,blow, suck,blow
That was the Nashy anaolgy yes? Basically after a fish has initially been nailed by the hook they will then blow AND suck to try and get rid of it, it's what happens on the suck that's just as important and most people don't consider, I know I didn't
In reply to Post #15
More importantly, if you can get them to blow a dart into their lips that's pulled in point first, it ain't coming out
they will then blow AND suck to try and get rid of it
Which can easily be prevented by using a longer hair
More importantly, if you can get them to blow a dart into their lips that's pulled in point first, it ain't coming out
they will then blow AND suck to try and get rid of it
Which can easily be prevented by using a longer hair
In reply to Post #10
Scozza, a carp Could still easily get away with it I feel as water needs to be considered and buoyancy of the bait.
Plus you have the fact small fish could move it about massively, think I will stick with knotless knot rig and a piece of silicone........
Scozza, a carp Could still easily get away with it I feel as water needs to be considered and buoyancy of the bait.
Plus you have the fact small fish could move it about massively, think I will stick with knotless knot rig and a piece of silicone........
In reply to Post #16
if you can get them to blow a dart into their lips that's pulled in point first, it ain't coming out
But with most of today's popular rigs with short bait attachment it's the 'suck' that can pull it back out.....
if you can get them to blow a dart into their lips that's pulled in point first, it ain't coming out
But with most of today's popular rigs with short bait attachment it's the 'suck' that can pull it back out.....
In reply to Post #17
The water will act as a vortex. Use what works for you Wayne, the thinking behind it I have tried to explain
The water will act as a vortex. Use what works for you Wayne, the thinking behind it I have tried to explain
In reply to Post #18
Agree, trends and all, most people nowadays have the bait nailed to the hook because carp are clever and they pick up baits with their lips and juggle with them you know, bearing in mind the palatial organ is a few inches back in the mouth
Agree, trends and all, most people nowadays have the bait nailed to the hook because carp are clever and they pick up baits with their lips and juggle with them you know, bearing in mind the palatial organ is a few inches back in the mouth
In reply to Post #20
Nothing new about that at all. Its in Rod Hutchinsons "Guide to Carp Baits" dated 1989 and its identical even down to using the rig ring. Without me digging deeper into Rods earlier books, I would not be surprised if I also saw it in one of them too. It's also Roger Smiths original "D" Rig from the early '80's which this article from Carp World confirms without me having to go into the loft to retrieve some old "Hutchy" articles which has it in.
I even have about 3 of them in one of my old rig cases that I tied up years ago but do not think I ever used them.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/carpworld/20191101/282273847129176
I even have about 3 of them in one of my old rig cases that I tied up years ago but do not think I ever used them.
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/carpworld/20191101/282273847129176
In reply to Post #22
Don't believe that anyone is claiming it as new? Just interested to see RB's take on it as he catches well using it.
Your link doesn't work for me?
Don't believe that anyone is claiming it as new? Just interested to see RB's take on it as he catches well using it.
Your link doesn't work for me?
In reply to Post #24
Weird, it takes me to press reader fine, but I just get a blank screen saying reload home screen?
Thanks for trying though OG.
Weird, it takes me to press reader fine, but I just get a blank screen saying reload home screen?
Thanks for trying though OG.
In reply to Post #22
This rig was invented by Roger Smith, as stated in Tim Paisleys tribute column in Carpworld last autumn. He also relays how RH and Lenny Middleton invented the hair rig and called it so by pulling a hair out of their long 70's mullet hairdo and tying it to the bend of a hook shank when experimenting with rigs pre1980's.
Classic carping history 👍
This rig was invented by Roger Smith, as stated in Tim Paisleys tribute column in Carpworld last autumn. He also relays how RH and Lenny Middleton invented the hair rig and called it so by pulling a hair out of their long 70's mullet hairdo and tying it to the bend of a hook shank when experimenting with rigs pre1980's.
Classic carping history 👍
In reply to Post #26
Think that was KM and not RH
Think that was KM and not RH
In reply to Post #27
Agree. And I thought that the story was that it was a hair from KM's wife's head!
Details aside. What this shows is there is very little new in carp fishing. But new materials and techniques create new opportunities. And average anglers, like me, miss the opportunities to improve on old ideas, whereas better anglers like Roger Bacon spot these opportunities
Agree. And I thought that the story was that it was a hair from KM's wife's head!
Details aside. What this shows is there is very little new in carp fishing. But new materials and techniques create new opportunities. And average anglers, like me, miss the opportunities to improve on old ideas, whereas better anglers like Roger Bacon spot these opportunities
The 'older' version of this as mentioned below all used the supple material available at the time. Rogers version uses a stiff D element that works to prevent the hook leaving the mouth by extending the shank of the hook.
Once the carp is *****ed by the hook, it will suck & blow and as such the force of the bait being blown will force the hook point in more.
Used with buoyant popups only so always resets
Once the carp is *****ed by the hook, it will suck & blow and as such the force of the bait being blown will force the hook point in more.
Used with buoyant popups only so always resets
In reply to Post #2
What knot is used to tie the d to the rig length?
What knot is used to tie the d to the rig length?
In reply to Post #30
Anyone?
Anyone?
In reply to Post #31
3 turn grinner.
3 turn grinner.
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