I'm testing my rigs, and I noticed that they break at 20lbs. I first thought that would be okay as the braid is rated at 20lb so couldnt ask for much more... However, when I tie with a figure of 8 knot it goes upto 22 / 23lbs. I'm currently using a simple overhand knot and still achieving what I consider to be half decent breaking point. Is a breaking point of 20lb okay for a 50lb carp and larger? Also, am I completely over thinking this because I seen people catch on 20lb zig line before
In reply to Post #1
Main line will have a stretch in it .you will never pull 20lb with the rod as it will break first
Main line will have a stretch in it .you will never pull 20lb with the rod as it will break first
In reply to Post #1
Definitely over thinking.
You wouldn't get the leverage to exert anything approaching that.
If you consider your rods tc how much more than that do you expect to put down your line?
Definitely over thinking.
You wouldn't get the leverage to exert anything approaching that.
If you consider your rods tc how much more than that do you expect to put down your line?
In reply to Post #1
Use the best knot. What's the problem. The figure of eight knot outperforms the overhand knot, no brainer. I don't know where this use of the overhand knot has come from. 50 years ago everybody knew it was weak and unreliable and nobody used it and you were taught that by experienced anglers.
Use the best knot. What's the problem. The figure of eight knot outperforms the overhand knot, no brainer. I don't know where this use of the overhand knot has come from. 50 years ago everybody knew it was weak and unreliable and nobody used it and you were taught that by experienced anglers.
In reply to Post #3
Test curve isn't the power output of a blank. There are indeed 3.5lb carp rods that will only pull about 3.5lb.
There are rods around 2lb that will pull 3x that
Higher BS hook links protect against abrasion, shock on the knots as the shorter length doesn't stretch and act as a buffer, plus stiffness is sometimes preferable
Test curve isn't the power output of a blank. There are indeed 3.5lb carp rods that will only pull about 3.5lb.
There are rods around 2lb that will pull 3x that
Higher BS hook links protect against abrasion, shock on the knots as the shorter length doesn't stretch and act as a buffer, plus stiffness is sometimes preferable
In reply to Post #4
I'll explain my issue... I've tied up 60 rigs with the overhand knot. However, after another post I made, I started looking into knots and found that everyone is using the figure 8 knot - I wasnt taught by anyone how to make rigs as the experienced anglers i know are buying pre tied rigs and / or never mentioned the figure 8 knot to me before. Even watching videos online, I must of missed it. But the figure of 8 loop is harder to do due to shortness of rig anyways.
So, instead of cutting up all the rigs and wasting the money, I decided to see what they break at and see if it made much of a difference compared to the figure 8 knot. The overhand loop broke at 20lbs and even though the figure 8 knot did break at a higher breaking strain, I wondered if I needed to re-tie the rigs because I wasnt sure if a breaking point of 20lb was too low for large carp. All the experienced anglers I asked didnt know as they dont tie rigs and said that I've been doing overhand loop in the past so they couldnt see the issue butttttt I wanted to ask everyone here
I'll explain my issue... I've tied up 60 rigs with the overhand knot. However, after another post I made, I started looking into knots and found that everyone is using the figure 8 knot - I wasnt taught by anyone how to make rigs as the experienced anglers i know are buying pre tied rigs and / or never mentioned the figure 8 knot to me before. Even watching videos online, I must of missed it. But the figure of 8 loop is harder to do due to shortness of rig anyways.
So, instead of cutting up all the rigs and wasting the money, I decided to see what they break at and see if it made much of a difference compared to the figure 8 knot. The overhand loop broke at 20lbs and even though the figure 8 knot did break at a higher breaking strain, I wondered if I needed to re-tie the rigs because I wasnt sure if a breaking point of 20lb was too low for large carp. All the experienced anglers I asked didnt know as they dont tie rigs and said that I've been doing overhand loop in the past so they couldnt see the issue butttttt I wanted to ask everyone here
In reply to Post #6
So I guess my question is. Would they be okay? Would you trust them or re-tie the rigs?
So I guess my question is. Would they be okay? Would you trust them or re-tie the rigs?
In reply to Post #7
Plenty of people use an overhand knot. They'll be fine.
Plenty of people use an overhand knot. They'll be fine.
In reply to Post #5
Yes I understand that the pull will depend on other things apart from tc but he is not likely come close to exerting 20 lb.
Abrasion resistance will be the same whatever knot he uses, so will the stiffness, so we are left with a breaking strain of 20 or 22/23lb. A very minor difference.
Yes I understand that the pull will depend on other things apart from tc but he is not likely come close to exerting 20 lb.
Abrasion resistance will be the same whatever knot he uses, so will the stiffness, so we are left with a breaking strain of 20 or 22/23lb. A very minor difference.
In reply to Post #8
That is very poor advice. Then people wonder why they crack off and lose fish. How many cut offs are knot failures? Use the right knot and tie it correctly.
That is very poor advice. Then people wonder why they crack off and lose fish. How many cut offs are knot failures? Use the right knot and tie it correctly.
In reply to Post #7
I would definitely not trust them. Learn the knot and take your time, we've all got plenty. Sacrifice the line and do it right. I don't think any truly experienced angler would advise anything else.
I would definitely not trust them. Learn the knot and take your time, we've all got plenty. Sacrifice the line and do it right. I don't think any truly experienced angler would advise anything else.
In reply to Post #11
It's not poor advice. Overhand knot is perfectly acceptable for a hooklink.
It's not poor advice. Overhand knot is perfectly acceptable for a hooklink.
In reply to Post #12
It most certainly is poor advice. Nothing else to say. Do it your way for yourself but your advice will lose people fish.
It most certainly is poor advice. Nothing else to say. Do it your way for yourself but your advice will lose people fish.
In reply to Post #9
I mentioned abrasion resistance as one of the reasons a higher bs link is used, not because of the knot used.
Though it obviously would help account for badly tied knots.
Personally I think hooklinks should often be the lightest part of the set up. I'll happily use 8 or 10lb mono, snags and obstacles permitting.
It's worth recognising people catch tarpon well over 100lb on lighter tippet/hook link than carp anglers use for mid doubles
I mentioned abrasion resistance as one of the reasons a higher bs link is used, not because of the knot used.
Though it obviously would help account for badly tied knots.
Personally I think hooklinks should often be the lightest part of the set up. I'll happily use 8 or 10lb mono, snags and obstacles permitting.
It's worth recognising people catch tarpon well over 100lb on lighter tippet/hook link than carp anglers use for mid doubles
In reply to Post #13
I maintain that an overhand loop is a perfectly acceptable and widely used knot to loop a coated braid hooklink. I think you're making a fool of yourself if I'm being honest, and you obviously have an attitude problem.
I maintain that an overhand loop is a perfectly acceptable and widely used knot to loop a coated braid hooklink. I think you're making a fool of yourself if I'm being honest, and you obviously have an attitude problem.
In reply to Post #15
No attitude problem. Do things your way and enjoy your fishing. But it is not a good knot. It is a strangulation knot which is why it is weaker and it will slip under strain. This is not my personal opinion. These are characteristics of the knot that are well documented.
No attitude problem. Do things your way and enjoy your fishing. But it is not a good knot. It is a strangulation knot which is why it is weaker and it will slip under strain. This is not my personal opinion. These are characteristics of the knot that are well documented.
In reply to Post #16
If you can explain to me how a knot breaking at 20lb (the same as the stated b/s of the hooklink) is going to lose fish I'm all ears.
If you can explain to me how a knot breaking at 20lb (the same as the stated b/s of the hooklink) is going to lose fish I'm all ears.
In reply to Post #17
Said everything I need to say about this knot. Do your thing and enjoy.
Said everything I need to say about this knot. Do your thing and enjoy.
In reply to Post #17
It just might..... why take any risk which you can reduce/eliminate? In any part of your angling?
It just might..... why take any risk which you can reduce/eliminate? In any part of your angling?
In reply to Post #1
20 lb is a high figure mate. I've always used an overhand loop and never had any issues with failures. If you've found the figure of 8 to be stronger then by all means use that next time if you wish but the rigs you have tied will be absolutely fine for fish of 50 lb or bigger imo.
20 lb is a high figure mate. I've always used an overhand loop and never had any issues with failures. If you've found the figure of 8 to be stronger then by all means use that next time if you wish but the rigs you have tied will be absolutely fine for fish of 50 lb or bigger imo.
Out of interest what rigs have you tied? I've used two overhand loops for a multi for years and have total confidence in it. With a decent coated braid I don't think you'll find a stronger rig
Yeah for what it's worth i just use an over hand loop knot and have total confidence in it.
In reply to Post #21
The rigs I tied are carbon copies of the Korda Loops. I want the rigs to be 1 inch and the knot needs to be as close to the hook as I can possibly get it so itll be hidden under the d rig kicker (I worry it'll tangle if I had the knot elsewhere). When I tie any other knot it's very very difficult to get it as close to the hook as I need it where as the overhand loop is perfectly fine to get in right spot time and time again.
Only issue is this isnt a coated braid and its un coated (Korda Dark matter braid) but does still give me a 20lb breaking point
The rigs I tied are carbon copies of the Korda Loops. I want the rigs to be 1 inch and the knot needs to be as close to the hook as I can possibly get it so itll be hidden under the d rig kicker (I worry it'll tangle if I had the knot elsewhere). When I tie any other knot it's very very difficult to get it as close to the hook as I need it where as the overhand loop is perfectly fine to get in right spot time and time again.
Only issue is this isnt a coated braid and its un coated (Korda Dark matter braid) but does still give me a 20lb breaking point
In reply to Post #23
Have you tried a grinner? You can bed the knot down where you want
Have you tried a grinner? You can bed the knot down where you want
In reply to Post #24
To be honest the reason I haven't used something like Grinner or a Palomar knot but I need a loop coming out below the hook so I can loop it onto my boom section. I've had a looked at how Korda make theres and it seems like they use super glued but I dont want to do that.
To be honest the reason I haven't used something like Grinner or a Palomar knot but I need a loop coming out below the hook so I can loop it onto my boom section. I've had a looked at how Korda make theres and it seems like they use super glued but I dont want to do that.
In reply to Post #25
Its very easy to do It like the korda loops. You just fold over a piece of braid so you get like a 2 inch loop then thread the two ends through the eye and just create a knot less knot, the you pass the loop back thru the eye like a knot less knot and voila! Can take a few goes to get the loop length/ number of whips right to meet your needs. I then cut the tag ends off and blob and cover with silicon tubing/shrink/ kicker.
The above is for a hook ring swivel on shank, if you need a hair just same process but create your loop for the bait stop after you've put the end through the eye and then adjust length of that to desired length and start whipping again. The you would only have the one tag and to blob/cut. Hope that make sense
I use the korda boom and crimps and supernatural 18lb for the hook section. I can get the soft part as short as I want, mine is about 3mm from boom loop to the silicone. It really is great simple pop up arrangement. Also I would recommend the new esp balance beads as a weight alternative. Fit nice and snug over crimp . I have no idea how to do a picture but can send it to someone if they want to upload for me
Its very easy to do It like the korda loops. You just fold over a piece of braid so you get like a 2 inch loop then thread the two ends through the eye and just create a knot less knot, the you pass the loop back thru the eye like a knot less knot and voila! Can take a few goes to get the loop length/ number of whips right to meet your needs. I then cut the tag ends off and blob and cover with silicon tubing/shrink/ kicker.
The above is for a hook ring swivel on shank, if you need a hair just same process but create your loop for the bait stop after you've put the end through the eye and then adjust length of that to desired length and start whipping again. The you would only have the one tag and to blob/cut. Hope that make sense
I use the korda boom and crimps and supernatural 18lb for the hook section. I can get the soft part as short as I want, mine is about 3mm from boom loop to the silicone. It really is great simple pop up arrangement. Also I would recommend the new esp balance beads as a weight alternative. Fit nice and snug over crimp . I have no idea how to do a picture but can send it to someone if they want to upload for me
If you find the overhand knot is ok id guess you are using a coated braid.
You could not use an overhand knot with mono and maintain a high breaking strain as it becomes a strangulation knot. Im sure the same is true with flouro but thats not my thing.
I wouldn't trust an overhand knot with uncoated braids.
You could not use an overhand knot with mono and maintain a high breaking strain as it becomes a strangulation knot. Im sure the same is true with flouro but thats not my thing.
I wouldn't trust an overhand knot with uncoated braids.
In reply to Post #26
That's great! You're a life saver
.
I've covered the wraps with a d rig kicker (even though I must admit the top few wraps arent covered but I'm sure it's fine ) I've gone up the shank 4 times which is essentially 8 wraps I suppose - if you wouldn't trust then please let me know.
Honestly thank you!
That's great! You're a life saver
.I've covered the wraps with a d rig kicker (even though I must admit the top few wraps arent covered but I'm sure it's fine
) I've gone up the shank 4 times which is essentially 8 wraps I suppose - if you wouldn't trust then please let me know.Honestly thank you!
In reply to Post #28
Glad it helped
Glad it helped
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